1. ed helms is an incredibly strong addition to the cast…….Great hire for the Office. Cant wait to see where the story is going. I usually dont like looking forward to season finales because that means 2 or 3 months of no new episodes, but I cant wait for the season finale for the Office, its gonna be sooo good

  2. Have to be honest, not really that thrilled. Ed Helms is so good in the part, I think that the character of “Andy” has worn out it’s welcome. I don’t really enjoy seeing him anymore. I’m part of the Dwight fan club though, so what do I know.

  3. I’m glad he’s on the show as a regular now. He is one of the reasons the show is doing so well. Every season has to have something new to it to keep people interested and Ed Helms was a part of that.

  4. Okay, this makes what he said in the MeeVee interview a bit confusing.

    “When is he going to get his ass kicked?
    Let’s just say, karma does not elude Andy.”

    Okay, so, he’s not fired, but something bad happens to him. Very excited to see how this plays.

    What about Rashida Jones? I suppose she’s just a catalyst for the Jim/Pam relationship, so her days might be numbered.

  5. That’s cool, I love Ed Helms and I know there are going to be some changes for his character coming up so it will be interesting to see how it all works out. Kind of off topic, but it would be nice to see them change the opening of the show and show more of the characters, anybody know what I mean? During the theme song I mean, blah its past midnight, sorry about the rambling lol

  6. I’m happy Ed is joining as a regular. I’m just wondering why they don’t make Creed a regular. I know he’s not on as much as others but when he is its pure comedic gold.

  7. That’s something I’ve been saying since the first time I saw Creed go into one of his “Creeds” as I like to call them. He of all people should be a regular.

    3:30am…god I hate the internet…

  8. adriana: didn’t paul say that an animal attacked someone? i wonder if andy’s the one who gets attacked. unless he was kidding about that.

    ed helms was back on the daily show though, i thought…he did a segment on it a month back or so.

    i love him to death but i’m not entirely sure how i feel about this. interested to see how it plays out.

  9. We definitely need more Andy and that high, sexy falsetto voice. “You know I can, my man.”

    Just thinking about it cracks me up!

    Love Andy!

  10. I agree with everyone who would like to see Creed become more prominent…he’s divine.
    But, alas, “The Office” is a lot like my office, where shlumps go zipping right up the corporate ladder and the lovely people get canned.
    Fact is, in real life, the seriously annoying people have a way of maximizing their shelf life.
    If the Karen character became a regular, I would not be pleased.

  11. Good news. Like others here I’m hopeful he doesn’t crowd out others in screentime but aside from that he’s a great addition. In my dreams this will help the show get an okay to become longer than half an hour.

    Rashida would be a great addition too, but if she is kept on Karen would need to be given more quirks and personality. Right now she’s just “the woman who likes Jim.”

  12. Hmmm… I have mixed feelings. A month or so ago, this would have made me ecstatic, but now I feel I’ve had my full of Andy, and not just because they turned him into a psycho ass. I’m sure the writers are capable of bringing back my enjoyment of the character, but I’m still worried that he’s served his purpose and is going to take away too much screen time from the others, particularly background characters like Meredith and Creed who are snubbed enough already.

  13. I totally agree with “b”. While I do like the Andy character, he is in effect is smothering the characters. Meredith and Creed are getting little airtime, when since they are some of the originals (and very funny) they deserve more. The producers need to know that while Andy is great, people are accustomed to certain characters, and they can’t just push them away for the latest funny thing. Creed is such a unique character that no other show has, or has ever had. Furthermore, I would be very displeased if Karen became a regular. It is the writers job to create more obstacles for JAM (they are very much like Ross and Rachel) so they can’t keep coming back to Karen, which, if she becomes a regular, will probably happen.

  14. Ed is the PERFECT irritant for The Office. I love watching Jim mess with Andy. Makes me wonder if he ever finds his phone. We know Andy’s in “Management Training” right now, which makes me laugh. I wonder if they’ll show any of it. I especially like the spin Andy put on it.

    Anyway, the show gets better and better all the time. According to Kevin’s blog, “As a whole, the next 4 “episodes” of our little show, may be the best 4 episodes as a whole arc that we have ever had.”


    I like Rashida Jones, but I don’t want Karen to stick around TOO long. Of course, Creed is listed as a “guest star”, so who knows how long she’ll be there?

  15. Also… “if she is kept on Karen would need to be given more quirks and personality”. I agree. She hasn’t got much of a personality. She’s dedicated and focused and professional, but that’s not that entertaining.

    By the way… what do Creed and Meredith do? They’re not sales, right? They can’t be accounting because they weren’t featured in the webisodes about the accountants. I was just wondering, really.

  16. I doubt he will have as big a part of episodes on a week to week basis as he did in recent episodes. I expect him to have about the level of screentime as Jan.

  17. I’m anxious to see how they can “redo” Andy to make him more likeable as a character; you don’t just forget about someone punching a hole in the wall! I think he is a good addition, but I particularly agree with a post suggesting he might take time/jokes from Dwight. As long as this doesn’t happen, I’m happy for the addition. I don’t agree though that Rashida Jones should be a regular. Her character’s purpose as an obstacle is very obvious, but the character development needed to make her a full-time character might not be that interesting.

  18. Congratulations Ed Helms!

    I was never a big fan of Andy, but that’s because I knew one too many Andy’s and they just disturb me to the core. Yech! That being said, that is why I find Andy perfect for the show. He really exists in real life, and now that he has been here it’s getting hard for me to imagine him gone.

    I also find him important as he might just add to the overall longevity of the show. As our standard characters continue to grow and mature, the story line shortens each step they take towards meeting their goals. Andy is very fresh and very raw with his own set of untouched issues. Now we get to see him develop and grow. I’m interested to see what anger-management does for him. I hope it doesn’t get rid of all his conniving and over and misdirected ambition.

  19. Even with Andy’s recent crazy antics, I still love him and am thrilled this isn’t the end of him!!

  20. I love Ed Helms. I really do. I think he’s wonderful, and he does a fantastic job playing Andy. Unfortunately, he really does too good a job, because Andy annoys the hell out of me. I know, he’s supposed to be annoying, but the problem is, you can’t annoy the other cast members without annoying the audience. I want to kill Andy when he comes onscreen. Period.

    And I miss the other characters, who are strange and quirky without being so goddamned annoying.

    Let’s just hope that him staying doesn’t mean he’ll be monopolizing episode time. Bring back Meredith and Creed!

  21. GOD YES.

    oh ed helms i adore you.
    now Jam won’t know who to pull a prank on each workday

  22. Oh how sweet it is! It’s a shame they rushed his character development in The Return, though. I was hoping for this AND have his anger brought out slowly while still being in Michael’s favor. The whole Dwight/Andy series of “battles” kind of seems one-sided now, unless he starts to go after Angela with his cat with a hat wallpaper.

  23. That noise you hear is the sound of the show beginning its downhill slide. Way to force stupid gimmicky crap, NBC. “Let’s drag out the Jim-Pam thing. Hey, worked on Friends! And, while we’re at it, let’s take away a lot of time for subtle, intelligent, introspective humor and give it to a goofball character!”

  24. yeah. i’m just kind of sick of andy. ed helms is awesome and he does a great job, but i really don’t like the character of andy, and i don’t know how they are going to make him likeable. but then again, andy caused people to have sympathy for dwight, so i don’t know…

  25. I love Ed Helms! The way he is so supremely annoying is hysterical to me. I am suprised that he is a permanent character, but I trust the writers to know what they are doing. They haven’t failed me yet! I think he will add a new funny twist.

  26. I saw Ed on the Daily Show last month too – during the filming break from the office.

    I’m glad that he is going to be part of the show but I REALLY REALLY hope they don’t shove him down our throats at the expense of the other characters.

    I would love more Meredith and Creed! (I was watching the commentary of “The Secret” again last night on the S2 DVD’s and can’t help but point out the John Krasinski said his fave line in any episode was Creed’s when Kevin tells Creed that Jim has a crush on Pam and Creed says “Ohhhhh…which one is Pam”)

    Time will tell I guess….

  27. Don’t keep your fingers cross about them not shoving him down our throats. It seems like season 3 is the way things are going to be from now on. I have faith in the writers, but I do not have faith in NBC.

  28. I like his character, especially the Andy/Dwight conflicts. I also just hope he doesn’t get too annoying. Have you noticed, I think he sings in every episode.

  29. A couple of weeks ago everyone loved Andy. Now people do not like him. Hmm.

    This is exactly what the writers wanted. I believe his personality will evolve and we will learn to love and hate him (like many of the other characters).

    ElaineChick – Gimmicky crap? I think Andy is one of the more realistic characters on the show. If anyone is gimmicky, it is Creed. Nobody knows a guy like Creed, and if you do know a guy like Creed you work at a mental hospital. Take a look at the other characters on the show. The personality development over time has made them sympathetic figures and more understandable. I think the writers will develop Andy in the same way.

  30. Andy is just stupid goofball humor, to me. I like learning more about minor characters, and Andy takes screen time away from the interactions of genuinely funny characters like Stanley and Meredith and Phyllis. I like subtle humor, I guess. And you’re right about Creed this season. Last season, he was just a seemingly normal guy at work who, if you ever talked to him, you realized was really odd and a little criminal. There are about 3 guys like that on my floor. No one on my floor has punched a wall or played the ukelele or anything else. I think Andy is the embodiment of cheap, stupid humor, and I think the Office is selling out. I think it has been all season, but now I think it’s committed itself to more of season 3-style humor, which I hate. I miss season 2.

  31. I don’t believe for one minute that The Office is selling out. If they were, Jim and Pam would be together by now. Andy’s character is doing exactly what he was meant to do, create a new catalist in the office. He is annoying and a kiss ass and it is absolutely hilarious to watch. I have loved every minute of season 3 just as much as the first two seasons. Still the best show on TV. Period.

  32. And, for the record, I didn’t like Andy a couple of weeks ago, or, to be frank, even from the moment her first appeared on screen.

  33. If it were still the best show on TV and there was no drop in quality, why would such a large percentage of the fans be really put off by season 3? A group of us used to get together and watch the office on Thursday nights – 7 of us. We loved it and watched it from day one. We all owned the DVDs and a lot of us did the message board thing. I am the only one still watching season 3.

  34. Yay! I’m really glad their keeping Ed Helms/Andy on the show. Even though he has been annoying lately I still thought he was hilarious. I can’t wait to see what kind of story lines they come up with between Andy, Dwight and Angela. :)

  35. Wow, there is a lot of animosity regarding this decision. But the only thing this decision says to me is that Ed Helms is a permanent character and Rashida is NOT. Which means, she is going to leave, and hopefully soon. Selling out or not, I still manage to laugh my a** off every single week, rerun or not. And there just aren’t enough shows out there like that.

  36. This could be either really good or really frustrating, I think.

    I was Andy’s biggest fan when he first started, but I was glad when he left. He really did come at the expense of Dwight and other minor characters.

    The reason I liked Andy so much was because he was used sparingly. When they came to Scranton, his airtime exploded and it got to be too much.

    If they go back to using him as a minor character, this could be good for the show.

    But I want to see more Kelly, more Creed and Meredith, etc.

  37. ElaineChick,

    I honestly just don’t see it… I guess it’s a matter of opinion. I find the show to be every bit as funny as it was in the past. The only difference I see is the lack of JAM this year… and maybe there are people out there who only liked the show for Jim and Pam and that would make them hate this season… All of the people I know who love the show have continued to enjoy it this season just as much as in the past.

    I love the writing on this show, and Andy is great because everyone has known an Andy at one time or another. I love hating him. Now that Andy has been made a regular member of the cast they must know what they are going to do with him, and I’m sure that he will not become a main focus of the show.

    Characters like Meredith and Creed are great in small doses, but I really don’t think that they could carry the show.

  38. I’m really surprised that every office fanatic isn’t excited for Helms becoming a regular. I think it’s great!

    Sure, he took up a lot of screentime initially, which I bet most people are fine with, but that doesn’t mean that he’ll do so in the future. Look at “Back from Vacation” for instance. Except for the teaser, he had very little screentime there. Also, while some characters haven’t had quite enough screentime this year– most notably Meredith– others are really getting some great storylines. Look at Phyllis: next week is an episode revolving around her character. Also: Angela, she’s had a ton of big storylines.

    And Creed isn’t really showing up much less than last year. On the season as whole (S2), Creed maybe averaged one line/scene an episode. I’d bet he’s pretty close to that standard now.

    The Office IS still the best show on television, hands down. No other show comes close the consistency of this show: except for the first four or five this season, every episode has basically been perfect.

    TRUST THE WRITERS– They know what they’re doing. Helms will be a hilarious and welcome addition to what is now officially, the best comedy ensemble on television!

  39. And saying that The Office is selling out??? That doesn’t even make sense. Who are they selling out to? NBC? The Fans? Obviously Andy’s character was well received or they wouldn’t keep him around. The show’s ratings have increased… so obviously they are doing something right. I would like someone to show me this supposed “large fanbase” who are put off by season 3, because if that’s the case, why haven’t the ratings declined? Why is it still the most downloaded show? Pfft.

    This show was practially DOOMED from day one because critics saw it as a cheesy knock-off of the British version. Not only has it proven itself as a success, but it has created it’s own personality.

  40. They’ve sold out to NBC. NBC wants to wring every last drop of marketability out of the show, so they’re pushing the writers to add idiot humor and teen girl angst to the show to draw in more of an audience. Don’t doubt for a second that they’re more than willing to alienate the show’s old base in order to add more viewers. There aren’t as many people in American who find subtle humor funny as there are people who love obvious humor like Andy.

    It’s the most downloaded show because they’ve added a buffoon character like Andy, and most people in American eat up stupid obvious humor and gimmicky cliches (that’s why King of Queens is still on the air. That’s why Americas’ Funniest Home Videos still gets viewers. That’s why people kept watching Friends, even after it was clear that NBC was manipulating the Ross-Rachel relationship to get ratings.)

  41. And, for the record, it does make sense that there has been a certain degree of selling out by the writers. I saw someone from the show give an interview where they said The Office had a really involved, detail-oriented fan base, and how they wished that was their focus group for future episodes because it would make the show really great. It’s clear they use focus groups, which I find to be selling out. I’m certain they do this at the bequest of NBC, but still. I think that’s selling out, whether they chose to do it or had it forced on them.

  42. Elaine, if you are so annoyed, then just stop watching it. No one is making you do anything. And as for Creed and Meredith — they are better as small characters. They never have been huge characters and they never will. We all can see that you don’t like Ed Helms. Because he annoys you. Which is exactly what he is supposed to do. If you love the show, quit ragging on it and give the writers a chance. If you don’t love it, then quit posting on a message board for people who do love the show. Goodness gracious, I can’t believe all the negative ranting and raving today. We are supposed to be LOVING The Office.

  43. Oh the classic response of the person who doesn’t want to hear anything negative about the show – just stop watching it. This is a discussion board, and I’m allowed to voice my opinion and see how others feel. Oh wait, I’m confused. We’re all supposed to just love it blindly and come on and say “Oh, yay! Nothing ever goes wrong on this show. It’s so perfect.”

    I guess I’ll relent and accept these writers and NBC as deities.

  44. I am not saying that you should blindly love them, I am just not the biggest fan of mass complaining over and over. You are complaining because you don’t like the writers and you think their network is influencing them too much. I guess you should call them and tell them how to do their job, because clearly you know what the fans want and they don’t.

  45. Just a reminder, from the Office Tally comment policy:

    What’s your policy on posting comments?

    OT readers are an insightful, articulate, and supportive bunch. OT wouldn’t be here without you!

    In that spirit, I aim to keep this community upbeat and focused on the subject at hand: our love for The Office!

  46. I guess I will have to agree to disagree. The show hasn’t dropped the subtle humor to gain more obvious gags. When the heck were Michael and Dwight ever subtle??? And adding angst??? The whole original premise of the show contained the Jim/Pam (Dawn/Tim) dynamic, and there was a ton more focus on that relationship last season than there has been this season.

    They can’t keep the show exactly the same forever. Maybe to keep everybody happy they should have just ended in the second season the way the British version did. Would that have been better?

    I think that the new characters came in just in time… otherwise, how would the show stay fresh? It can’t just go on forever, same branch, same people existing under the fear of the forever threat of the branch being closed? Jim staring longingly at Pam until the end of time? Or should Jim and Pam skipped happily into the sunset after Casino Night, and spent all of season 3 making out in the parking lot? Silly me, now that’s entertainment!!!

  47. Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying, HR. I know what everyone wants. Don’t worry, I won’t say anything more. I’ll try and blindly fall in line and say, “I find it hilarious when Ed Helms sings in falsetto and plays the ukelele.”

  48. I’m sorry Elaine. You have a right to comment about dislikes too. I guess I just really like The Office and I don’t want fans to give up on it already. Post away!

  49. This has been one of the most interesting discussions I’ve seen on OfficeTally, and I encourage all to continue!

    Differing opinions are welcome, personal attacks are not.

    Carry on … :)

  50. I am happy about this decision. I wasn’t crazy about Andy at first, but Ed Helm’s has been terrific. I can’t wait to see what the writers have planned because they always surprise me. This is the one show I download from iTunes, and season 3 for me and everyone in my office has been just as good as the previous seasons. I do agree with other posters about hoping that Andy is used sparingly though in the future. The best episodes are typically the ones that involve more of the supporting characters, but Andy and Karen have added new aspects into the show that I have really enjoyed.

  51. what about Karen. I’m in love with Rashida Jones, please make her a regular too

  52. “teen girl angst??” Thats what you think it has come down to? ElaineChick. Cuz i don’t know vary many teen girls who think that a show about “life in the office” is funny. But congrats to Ed!!! Andy and The Tuna are BACK!!!

  53. Keep in mind that Melora Hardin and David Denman are also regulars. But they aren’t in every episode or every storyline.

  54. No, teen girls aren’t into “life in the office” humor but there is much “squee-ing” over Jim and Pam as well as John K.

  55. Re: comment 19 (Purple Belt)

    I’m fairly certain Creed is a quality control guy; I seem to recall in one episode he says that when people call and ask if their paper is of high quality, he assures them that it is.

    As for Meredith, Wikipedia claims she is in Customer Service/Purchasing, but in a season one episode (the Alliance, I think), Jim signs her birthday card saying something like, “I heard you were turning “whatever age”, but come on, you’re an accountant, just fudge the numbers!” I don’t believe she is an accountant, so that was either an “oops” on the part of the writers, or a purposeful comment about how Jim (and maybe most of the others in the office) don’t really know what she does (and just assume she’s in accounting because she sits close to the other accountants). It could also be that because this happened early in the show that Meredith’s job hadn’t really been defined yet. At any rate, my money is on her being in purchasing. If she was in Customer Service, why doesn’t she sit in the back with Kelly?

    If anyone else knows for sure, please let us know!

    As for Ed Helms sticking around, I don’t mind so much as long as the show remains an ensemble. I enjoy the minor characters so much that I would hate to see The Office become “The Jim/Pam/Andy/Michael/Dwight Show”. I understand the difference between major and minor characters and the roles they play in the story, but I do feel that some characters have been neglected lately, specifically Meredith. I would also like to see more of Ryan and Kelly, and especially would like to see more of Ryan’s angst at becoming the person he didn’t ever want to be. He started out so ambitious, going to business school, and now he just seems to have settled for being a salesman. Why? What happened? I mean, I can understand just getting “stuck”, and that it can happen over time with no real “turning point”, but with Ryan it seemed to happen suddenly.

    Also, what is up with Michael and Jan??? Was there no fallout over the picture??? I hope this is revisited in upcoming episodes.

    Okay, my ramble is over!

  56. Regarding Andy: He’s an obnoxious character, period. It could be great if they do it right, or really bad if they do it wrong. But I don’t think they’ll do it wrong…they’re good writers. They’ve proven this.

    Regarding Karen: Unlike Andy, Karen isn’t funny. She can go. Andy is a character, Karen is a plot development. She’s just boring to me, and Rashida Jones being hot doesn’t work in her favor since I’m a girl. ;) I like her as an actress from what I’ve seen of her, but not on this show. Na na na na hey hey hey goodbye.

    Regarding ElaineChick: I respect your opinion, and I actually agree with you to some extent. But please PLEASE don’t make your comments worthless by using The Office to descend into anti-American rhetoric. It’s offensive and unnecessary, and also irrelevant.

  57. I’m an American, BTW, and I don’t think I’m engaged in anti-American rhetoric. I’m only opposed to stupid Americans.

  58. I think Andy having to work his way up the ranks again sounds like fun. Knowing Andy he’d like to make everyone look bad, regardless of their department. Who wouldn’t want to see Andy vs. Creed or Andy vs. Phyllis?

  59. I just want to give a kudos to Rashida. I love Rashida Jones as a person. She is very intelligent and I really respect her. That being said, I know that she can’t stay on the show forever, but I am glad she is getting to play a part. I am still the biggest JAM fan ever, but I still love Karen.

  60. P.S. I think Ed has been the funniest part about Season 3. C’mon — the Big Tuna line is hilarious. And he really demonstrated fantastic acting with the cell phone episode. At least I think so. I also really love the part where they are in Stamford and Karen and Jim are looking for the chips. Jim and Karen make fun of Andy for suggesting the vending machine, then Andy responds with one of my fav lines — Did you look in my butt, or something like that. Haaa.

    Dwight will never be replaced. But they do need something different to spice things up. They can’t keep going with the old. And, in real life, new people do get hired into offices. And Andy’s character is so outrageous (just as so many of the other characters are outrageous), that it will be interesting to see where they go with him.

  61. I haven’t read all of these ongoing comments, but all I have to say is, how can you argue with Ed Helms, aka Andy?? Spewing lines such as, “Did you check your butt?” and “If someone doesn’t tell me who did this, I’m gonna lose my frickin’ mind!” and sings in falcetto while playing the banjo and sings Zombie by the Cranberries …. how can you argue with that??

    Anyone who can make Michael hide behind his office door is obviously an asset to the show. I’m just sayin’…

  62. Yes, perfectly said Big Turkey! There is someone that makes Michael cringe!! That is huge!

  63. “I’m an American, BTW, and I don’t think I’m engaged in anti-American rhetoric. I’m only opposed to stupid Americans. ”

    I may not agree with everything you say (some, but not all) but I will defend to the death my right to use this as my slogan.

  64. I’m probably more excited about this news than I am about the new ep tonight. I love Ed Helms, and I love Andy. I haven’t read all the previous comments, but I’m a little surprised at some of the animosity going on! I don’t know any office type environment that keeps the exact same staff for even two years. Changes had to happen. Anyway, Andy’s been “acting his heart out,” and in my opinion, anyway, he’s been something else to look forward to every week.

  65. As big a jerk as he’s been the last two episodes, I’m so glad he’s coming back. It will be nice watching him with Dwight. He really won me over singing rainbow connection. Then I hated him for what he did stealing Dwight’s keys to get some dirt on him. So therefore, this makes him an excellent actor. Now, question, is Rasheeda coming back? Hope not.

  66. Hmmmm. He’s a big jerk, but I guess that is part of what makes the show slightly more realistic. It’s good to have someone to “hate”. Dwight and Michael are somewhat lovable jerks; Andy is just annoying, he’s everyone I hated in high school. Let’s hope the anger management doesn’t make him too complacent.

  67. I’m of the belief that no wrong can come of this decision. I’m actually surprised at how happy I was, considering how much I disliked Andy these last two episodes.

  68. In some ways, Andy is more like David Brent than Michael Scott is, he fits the show seamlessly.

  69. Yay!

    I don’t like how Andy talks crap about Dwight, but his character on the show really does make it that much more interesting!

    Congrats Ed!
    Welcome to the permanent cast!

  70. Andy is the typical work place brown-noser only a much more amplified. The reason for his over bearing behavior the last few weeks was simply to get sympathy for Dwight. It worked and everyone likes Dwight a little better now. I think Ed Helms has been great this season and I’m happy he’s been promoted to a full member of the cast.

    The writers on this show are good. They know they’ve given us too large a dose of Andy and have taken him away for a while and he can come back as anything they want. Maybe he’ll find a girlfriend in anger management and he’ll mellow out a little. Now that he knows that Michael doesn’t want people sucking up to him just to advance their career, he’ll most likely find a more subtle way to accomplish his goals and he’ll blend into the background. Name repetition, personality mirroring and nods and smiles are clearly no longer going to work for him in Scranton.

  71. Noooo!!! I hate Andy and I don’t think he’s funny AT ALL. I seriously thought that he was going to be hitting the road soon…boo.

  72. Even if you don’t like him, I see people’s characters as a real workplace. You’re going to have a different opinion about everyone, and there’s going to be that one person that you just hate…so I think that in that sense it’s a great thing ;)

  73. My opinion on his overly obnoxious behavior is: the writers had an original arc for him where he worked up to a frenzy and then left the show. Somewhere along the way, they realized what a great character/actor he was and decided maybe they would keep him on more permananently, so they cooked up a scheme where he would go to anger management training and then return. But they still had to have those couple of episodes where he was incredibly obnoxious. I’m sure he’ll be back to being the loveably obnoxious guy we saw in the first 10 or so episodes of season 3…I’m pumped.

  74. Gotta love Andy, but in smaller and more toned down doses. Andy is a little like Kelly in that sense. Ed is a great actor and I’d hate to see him go. Glad he’ll be around. Just a thought, there was an episode in season 1, where Dwight formed an alliance with Jim. I could see Dwight (because he’s naive) trying this idea again with Andy, after Andy returns. That would be hilarious.

  75. LyndaDay, I know plenty of people who can sing The Rainbow Connection in pig latin while playing the banjo. Don’t you? :-)

    I personally love Ed Helms… and Andy. Four part version of Rockin’ Robin for a ringtone? Classic…

  76. I like the added tension that Andy brings. He’s a little devious and I love how he and Dwight interact.

  77. Oh my goodness, LyndaDay if you don’t think that Andy is believeable, you are so lucky you haven’t ever had to work with someone like him. :) I TOTALLY have worked with a person just like Andy. Total brown noser to the core, would throw anyone under the bus to get ahead, etc. etc. He was so totally annoying that my skin crawls right now just thinking of him. Thus, to me, Andy is a completely believeable character.

  78. Hmm. I wasn’t really expecting this. From everything I’ve been hearing, I thought he wasn’t going to be around much longer. Also, the last episode made me think they were definitely getting rid of him soon.

    I’m with all you guys who are a little sick of Andy. As much as I like Ed Helms, I’m not interested in watching this character anymore.

    Karen is different, though. I feel like her character has more depth and they could do much more with her than Andy.

    I guess we’ll just have to see how it goes. Maybe he won’t have such a huge part.
    Yeah we should petition to get Creed a regular cast member…

  79. oh wow.
    this discusion is awesome.
    if only i were here earlier.

    well, i agree almost completely with Elainechick and would love to hang out with her.
    she’s right about the “friends” and NBC thing. she’s right about andy being obvious “funny” and a buffoon(sp?) and how the subtle humor that was praised before has been diminished by andy’s character. i hate andy and sometimes i feel like he’s replaced the laugh track that are regularly on 30minute shows. she’s right about how networks will do anything to get more viewers even if they have to abandon the old faithful viewers. it’s not the office writers, it’s NBC. just watch “studio 60”, it’s a prime example of networks trying to manipulate the content of the show.
    and Creed is NOT a gimmick as someone said. Creed is very realistic. yes he’s a criminal dude, but his oddness from this season is due to the subtle fact that Creed may be losing his memory, which is a bit sad. Creed, the actor, should have really gotten a SAG award and been listed as a regular. his scenes are usually my favourite. i find it terrible that they made ed helms a regular. i hate andy, dwight hates andy, jim hates andy, EVERYBODY hates andy…well, except those who once thrived on the all to well known laugh track.

    that felt good.

    [from tanster: name calling edited out]

  80. Oh, I’ve met brown-nosers. I wouldn’t mind an additional brown-nosing character (although I prefer Dwight’s brand of brown-nosing to anyone else’s). I’m saying Andy’s not believable because of the other annoying stuff he does. No one brings a ukelele to work, like someone said below, or punches through walls or any of the other over-the-top stuff he does. That stuff I find unrealistic, and it really sticks out like a sore thumb in a show all about real office situations, IMO.

  81. Thanks, kippi! You’re right about Andy kind of being the laugh track replacement! I hate how networks kind of ruin good shows by trying to make them more mass marketable. I watched it happen with good old Arrested Development, and that’s why I’m so pissy about it happening with The Office. I guess I feel I should be vocal about it in the hopes that someone at NBC or the writers hear some of the vocal opposition to these changes and stop. That’s probably unrealistic.

    I feel like the whole thing is like finding a great little hidden gem of a bar or restaurant, loving it for what it is, and hating it when the word gets out and it changes a lot for the worse. I just want my favorite show to retain its character and not be dumbed down for better ratings!

  82. i totally agree Elaine. and i feel the same panic from the Arrested Development days. (oh, how i miss that show!) it would be such a crime if they messed with the office. it would prove all those brits who hate our version right.

  83. I’ve always kind of disliked The Carpet episode because it struck me as purely scatalogical humor and really out of whack with the rest of the plot lines. I think Packer is a completely realistic character (arrogant, chauvinistic, etc.), but not the poo-ing on the floor bit.

  84. No one brings a ukelele to work??

    What about Dwight and his recorder?

    And, unfortunately, I know people who put their fists through walls for much less that a harmless prank.

    Most of Jim’s GREAT pranks would never be done either, like the Dwight’s stuff in the vending machine. It’s TV …

  85. its better to have a show that is made for a lot of people to watch it become successful than to have a show that a few people watch and ADORE and be cancelled.

    the office is only doing what has to be done.

  86. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t want to be a hater about the entire episode of The Carpet. There were great funny moments in it arising from more realistic character interactions, but the poop on the floor jokes just didn’t cut it for me. :)

  87. Wow, maybe I just work with more-mature-than-average people. Someone has seriously punched through a wall at a workplace?!

  88. “its better to have a show that is made for a lot of people to watch it become successful than to have a show that a few people watch and ADORE and be cancelled.”

    Sorry, but I guess this is my greatest fear with the show. I think it would be great for it to go out on a high note, even after only a few seasons, having been fresh and funny throughout. I’d like that much more than watching it go out with a whimper at the end of 10.

  89. I’m iffy on the whole Andy thing. I like Ed Helms, and he is a funny character, but he is at times, way to out there, I mean we have Michael and Dwight for the out there stuff, and they are more grounded in that, but I can’t see where they are going to go with Andy, but the writers are amazing, so I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt.

  90. I’ve never seen people punch walls at work, but people shoot people at work. I know that’s a stretch, but you get my drift.

    And so much is unbelievable about Dwight. He’s by far my favorite character, but most of the characters are a little bit larger than life. A little bit more exaggerated and caricaturized.

    Half of the crap Michael does?? He would’ve been fired by now…

  91. I like this news, assuming that they keep Andy in check, which I believe they will.

    Also: how was Arrested Development dumbed down or changed by FOX?

    Also also: I firmly believe that the show is just as funny as it was in season two. Except for a few rough patches in the beginning of the season, that is (read: The Initiation, The Coup) I guess I think its too early to be calling “selling out.” Maybe if, by the end of the season, there turns out to be way too much Andy. But until that happens, I’m not going to saying the show is selling out (or claim that its being dumbed down.)

  92. AD wasn’t ever dumbed down, but FOX sure wanted to do it. That’s what just about all of season 3 is about – making fun of FOX’s efforts to make it more mass appealable. Granted, it went off the air, but it never compromised its integrity or its humor, and I think it’s great for that reason. I don’t skip any episodes when I re-watch that on DVD. I think I’d skip quite a few season 3 eps with The Office.

  93. I think I would probably skip a few episodes, but it isn’t because they are “dumbed down” or “made to appeal to more people” by NBC. I just think they weren’t very good. For that matter, there are a few Arrested Development episodes that I skip on a regular occasion. (Namely the one with Martin Short. Shudder.)

  94. Ew, ew, ew. Yes, I amend my earlier statement. I ALWAYS skip the Martin Short episode. A smudge on AD’s otherwise clean resume.

  95. But yea, I get what you’re saying, but I still find issue in saying that The Office has been dumbed down to this point (implying that those who have enjoyed Season 3 are too dumb to notice that the humor is dumb. Or something). But I will state that this move could be a bad one, if Andy is kept at the level he was. But I don’t think he will be; he was used well in the episodes before the big Dwight/Andy arc.

    Basically I’m just saying it’s too early to tell?

  96. Well, I’d say it’s too early to know what’s going on with Andy Bernard, as Ed Helms is always awesome.

    (Winky Face)

  97. elaine 111-

    I see what youre saying. but still, i would much rather be able to watch the office than not at all. i can see why you would rather have it be short and sweet, but why not add a few episodes to detail storylines and make it more interesting, even if it means a small number of episodes that are still brilliant, just not as brilliant as others, come into play. i do agree, though, that i dont want it going on for 10 seasons, because that will give the writers time to ruin the show (not that theyre even capable of doing so).

    speaking of writers.. if they hadnt added andy or karen, it would have been SO (!) much harder to keep creating stroylines. the ensemble is great, but we’ve already delved into a lot of theyre personal lives about as much as a documentary crew can without being the most invasive things ever.

  98. I don’t know about anyone else, but I found Andy of the merger too much. Even Andy back in Stamford was too much. It just seems like Ed Helms was doing a bit part or a caricature and it rubbed me the wrong way. It was all very one-note.

    Also, I hope I’m not giving anyone the impression that if they find Andy funny they’re dumb. I don’t think that at all. There’s a lot of room for that type of humor and I find it funny, too; I just don’t think it has a place in the show because The Office is a different kind of funny than that.

  99. Thats fine too, Lynda, except that The Office has always had some over the top humor. It’s just how they balance it. I guess where we differ is in what we believe the balance should be.

    And I also want to say that while I don’t think The Office is without flaws, I do believe that these flaws were not the result of pressure from above. I just think that the show isn’t infallible, and has made some mistakes.

  100. I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade but…
    The Office is a TV show. It’s entertainment that everyone should just try to enjoy. :)

  101. I think it depends on how you view the show and art in general. Some like to feel the comfort of “their show” coming on for several years. Some like the show to be at it’s creative peak when it goes out. The “sell out” phrase makes me think of how sensitive a subject artistic validity is in the music community. There are mix radio stations for those that like to feel comfortable. And there are college stations for those who are always looking for the new exciting thing. I think I fall somewhere in between for television. Part of me wants it to go on for 7 or 8 seasons, knowing that classic episodes will be less frequent, opposed to 4 seasons of mostly classic episodes. Not sure why I feel that way about TV, I am usually a little more picky about other forms of entertainment. I like the excitement of a new episode and watching it with friends every week. Perhaps that is what I will miss the most when the show is over.

    Ok, now I am just talking to myself.

  102. YAY! Ed Helms is staying! So what if Andy’s a douschbag, Ed Helms fits well with the crew. I’m so excited!

  103. Yea, I don’t want The Office going beyond its fresh date. I just also believe it has a few good years in it left.

  104. I don’t like Andy. I hope he has a personality change or something. I think his character is a caricature and is too over the top.

  105. This is gonna be awesome. Dwight and Andy are gonna fight ALL the time! Nice call by NBC or whoever is in charge of that stuff. Andy adds a great, new dynamic to the show… even if he is a jerk.

  106. I’m sure, in time, that we will get to see the “softer side” of Andy Bernard as well. And if he rubs people the wrong way, great! The character is all too real…and I’m sure things will evolve, both his personality and the other Officemates’ attitudes/actions towards him.

  107. In case you want to expand the debate to another internet venue, a similar discussion is going on over at the EW.com PopWatch page. They only have a paltry 7 comments on the issue; we should flood the message boards in numbers to show the true gravity of this addition. Haha

  108. Elaine,

    If you didn’t like Andy from the beginning, then there’s nothing any of us can do to help. That said…

    I personally thought Andy was hi-larious when they were in Stamford. He clearly is capable of functioning in an office environment, and he wasn’t THAT suckuppy with Josh. Yes, he got a bit over the top, but those were Andy-centric episodes. Who wouldn’t call Dwight in a police officer’s uniform over the top? Besides, It’s not like Andy’s going to come back from 15 weeks of anger management and keep acting like that. I’m expecting more of the Andy that argued with Dwight in the elevator scene than the Andy that recorded a 4-part harmony for his ringtone.

    As for the controversial ukulele scene, what do you call Dwight and Pam’s song at the bird funeral? It’s the same idea.

    Let’s face it, if they didn’t keep bringing in new plot devices and characters, the only continuously running character storyline would be Pam and Jim gazing longingly at each other. After Phyllis’s wedding, and the whole Karen thing dies down (maybe the 4-ep arc that Brian Baumgartner referred to) I’m guessing the next storyline will be Andy’s grand return. And frankly, I can’t wait to see how the writers have him acting then.

  109. All I have to say is, if Andy is staying on, they better have damn good writing.

    It was funny, for a while, but to have a continuing really annoying character, it usually needs to be someone you love to hate. Like…Dwight or Michael. Someone you can see the “softer” side of on occassion.

    So, yeah, the writing on this better be good. But I trust the writers.

  110. I would like to believe that the creators of this show and the writers would resist changing the feel of the show. Aren’t Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant are still in the picture, and acting as consultants, so I would *assume* that they have input and would maintain the original feel of the show.

    I’ve always loved Ed Helms, so Andy is awesome for me. With more characters comes the opportunity to explore more plot development. We can learn more about some of the characters if need be. Wouldn’t it be fun to see the “home” life of Creed or Angela or Karen?

    I think Pam’s going to get into another serious relationship at some point – with Roy or someone else. What about Angela and Roy? That could be fun!! Dwight would LOSE HIS MIND.

    I think Andy’s gone for a while for his anger management, so those folks who hate him can be happy during that time.

    All of the characters on the show are certainly possible in real life. Thank GOD I’ve not worked with all of them.

    Thanks m3k1 for the confirmation of Creed’s duties. I got that from the interview I watched on that hollywoodtv thingy. As for Kelly, didn’t she say that someone used to sit back there with her but they had to move because they were allergic to her perfume or something? THAT is probably the reason that no one sits back there. Poor Toby!!

    There’s just no telling what Meredith does. I think it’s been unclear, but GOOD MEMORY for whoever remembered the deal about her birthday card! WOW.

    Okay. I need to stop now.

  111. I think it was in “The Carpet”. Michael took Jim’s desk, so Jim went to the back. The open desk was next to Kelly, and she told Jim that Toby used to sit there, until he got allergic. Jim said, “to the desk?”, and Kelly responded, “weird.”. At least that’s how I remember it.

  112. I’m not so sure about this. I stopped liking Andy when the two branches merged. To me, he was Stanford’s Dwight for Jim to mess with while Dwight wasn’t available. Moving him to Scranton added a second Dwight to the office that was by no means necessary.

    Not only does Andy take away from Dwight and the minor characters, he also takes away from Michael. It seems that every time Andy is around, Michael acts normal… and who likes that?

    It’s hard to see how Andy could be used as a minor character seeing as how his character is way too prominent and demanding. He’s never been a minor character. At the beginning of Season 3 it was as if the Stanford branch had their own show and Scranton had theirs. Andy was a main character for the Stanford branch… not minor.

    I don’t really think Andy being a full time character could be too good for the future of the show. To be honest, I didn’t even notice that he was gone during the ‘Ben Franklin’ episode and I really wasn’t bothered by it when I did eventually notice.

    Karen will be gone eventually. It’s a given (at least it should be). Her personality is virtualy non-existent and to add any quirky traits to her character would be way too unnatural for us fans to cope with. Keeping her as she is and making her a regular would just be boring and pointless seeing as her only role is to interfere with Jim and Pam.

    Bottom line. Ed Helms’ character is annoying and completely unnecessary. It adds a sense of unrest to the show that it really doesn’t need and brings the show down a level from intelligent humor to everyday humor. Getting rid of him two weeks ago was a relief… finding out that he’s been signed on as a regular is a bit of let down, but I’m all for seeing what they do with his character in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an overly forgiving Andy in the future… that might work.

  113. I like this quote – I think it sums it up nicely. I took this off of the EW boards someone linked to below…

    “I hate Andy. He is the opposite of everything that makes the show good. I agree with everyone below who said the majority of what was entertaining about him was knowing he’d be gone soon and we’d get to watch it. I don’t care if he comes back as a mellow new-age hippie or even as the same personality he was before, Ed Helms can’t do subtle! Subtle is what makes this show. No matter what form Andy comes back as, as long as Ed Helms plays him, he’ll be front and center in the spotlight. I actually like Ed Helms, but I think he works better where obvious humor is needed. On a show like this, he sticks out like a sore thumb against the nuanced subtlety that the show is good for or, even worse, he’ll drive the humor in the direction of stupid, loud, over-the-top comedy. Either way, nothing good can come of this, and I hope the writers reconsider.”

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