1. lol this will only give the karen haters more fire to play with

    Wut did u guys expect ? Pam would do the same thing !! dont be hypocrite

    Meredith is dirty LOL

  2. Well this episode has established two things about Karen Filipelli: she’s a lousy prank actor, and lousy at covert maliciousness.

  3. Karen’s just floating in a sea of insecurity. Can hardly blame her for feeling insecure, but I’m wondering why she’s staying with Jim and trying to sabotage any interaction Jim and Pam might have. If she’s so worried that he’s one art show away from dumping her, then maybe that should be an indication about the state of their relationship. Karen might feel like she has to make her relationship with Jim work since she thinks she mostly left Connecticut *for* Jim. She put a lot of pressure on Jim, but also on herself.

  4. Oh yeah, it’s not surprising that Karen wanted to rip down Pam’s flyer. She ripped down Angela’s flyer, after all. I’m just joking, but notice the similarity.

  5. what do you think meredith said. something about roy having a big c*ck and hitting it from the back? no idea actually.

  6. I think I get the gist of the joke, but I can’t explain without violating the rules of this website. :) Maybe if only adults read these posts I could get away with it.

  7. I knew Karen was going to try that!! Terrible, but I’ve seen people do stuff like that before. Very true to life!!

    I guess that answers the question about who was invited to the art show… EVERYONE.

  8. I suspect when we see Karen’s ex in the next episode and we learn that he dumped her for being too clingy and needy and less fun than a root canal performed by a monkey, it will explain a lot about her.

    But yeah, they should have left that scene in. If anything, it gives further creedence to my theory that Karen forbade Jim from going to Pam’s art show.

  9. You know what, up until this point, I felt bad for Karen. It wasn’t her fault that Jim lead her on, encouraged her into moving to Scranton, and misdirected her about his feelings for Pam.

    After seeing that deleted scene, I have no sympathy for Karen. That was sneaky, underhanded, and just plain pathetic. I hope she gets burned, and burned bad by Jim. It’s even more pathetic when you consider the guise of friendship she has with Pam. Karen is a phony.

    Say what you will about Pam having no courage or honesty, but Pam is a much better person and friend than Karen. Pam helped Karen when Jim didn’t want her moving near him. Pam went out of her way to make sure Karen felt included in the Christmas party. And lastly, out of respect for Karen, Pam hasn’t actively pursued Jim. It isn’t Pam’s fault that her and Jim had a history and Jim still loves her.

    And how sad is it, that even though Pam is back with Roy and Karen and Jim are together, that Karen still felt the need to tear down the flyer?

  10. And Cousin Mose, if that’s true, then I have even less respect for Jim. If he didn’t go for his own reasons, that’s pretty bad. But if he didn’t go only to appease Karen, then in the words of Angela Martin– “Sometimes I think you just need to grow a set.”

  11. Callan – I completely agree, though my like of Karen rapidly began to fade with her out-of-nowhere territorial hug on Jim during Ben Franklin and only intensified after watching that deleted scene.

    She’s clearly insecure and there’s nothing anyone can do about that. Jim and Pam aren’t even speaking to one another and she still feels the need to rip down Pam’s art flyer so that Jim doesn’t see it?

    That speaks so much to where Jim and Karen *really* are in their relationship. Or better yet, that Karen isn’t that dense and has *some* self awareness that things aren’t as peachy as she’d like them to be, despite 5 nights of talking.

    And to the poster that said Pam would do the same thing if she was in that situation?

    No she wouldn’t. That isn’t who Pam is.

    But that is apparently who Karen is. And the more we get to know of her, the less I sympathize with her or like her or even tolerate her.

  12. I’m with Chris (message 9) on this one, aside from the trashbag on Meredith’s head. Oh, and Karen’s a beeyoch. I hope Pam slashes her tires.

  13. Right on, Dorky Dancer. If the roles were reversed, I can’t imagine Pam doing the same thing, because that’s not who she is. As Callan in post 16 said, Pam has been nothing but nice to Karen…Karen trying to pull that flyer down was mean, to say the least.

  14. HELP!!!

    I can’t watch any deleted scenes until I leave work….Can anyone describe in detail what happened???

    From what is posted already….Karen took down Pam’s flier!!!???? Was there any telltale expression on Karen’s face…..please help a fellow office-fan!!


  15. Karen is getting coffee in the break room. She sees the flyer and she’s reading over it. Then she peeks into the office and sees Pam looking at the back of Jim’s head. She then goes to the cabinet, curls her hand around the flyer and goes to rip it down, when Oscar comes in. She stops, gives him a fake smile, then they both leave the breakroom

    She didn’t actually rip the flyer down, but it was her intention to do so had Oscar not been there.

    The other deleted scenes: Creed needing Phyllis for something. Stanley telling him she’s on her honeymoon for 6 weeks. Creed says he’ll wait, then sits atop her desk.

    Stanley claiming since Phyllis is on her honeymoon, he’s in paradise too. Throws some paperwork on her desk and gets back to his crossword

    Meredith wanting to tell a joke to Angela and Oscar about why Pam got back with Roy at the wedding. Angela leaves, Oscar says he isn’t interested in gossip. Meredith goes on to tell a bleeped joke, complete with hand gestures. Oscar laughs in spite of himself, but quickly adds “That was disgusting.” To which Meredith laughs and says “I know!”

  16. I don’t think its pathetic at all, her boyfriend admitted he had feelings for a girl they both work with. Everyone who’s been in a relationship knows how jealous you get in situations like that

  17. What IS pathetic is that she’s still dating AND trying to cling to Jim even though he’s admitted to having feelings for someone else.

  18. Thank you so much Dorky Dancer—that was a great description!!! I can’t wait to see it—-and I can’t wait for next week….I think we all feel that things will come to a head next week with Karen & Jim…Jim looks pretty mad in that picture they have of them talking….

  19. As usual, I agree with Cousin Mose and Dorky Dancer. Pam would never take the flier down. And I think that Jim didn’t go to Pam’s show because he didn’t want the hassle from Karen. I’m not sure we can say with certainty that she forbade him, but that is a possibility. My guess is he just figured it wasn’t worth the effort; Pam is with Roy again, so showing up won’t help him with her, and going will just complicate things with Karen, and he’ll have to endure another talk. Jim’s just cruising right now, trying to convince himself he’s moved on and that he’s happy.

  20. While I did think it was pretty crappy of Karen to try to tear down the flyer, I don’t think she was the only reason Jim didn’t show up. He looked pretty devastated and sickened when he saw Pam leaving with Roy (probably as much as we all were) and it seemed like they weren’t talking at all in this episode. I think he didn’t go because:

    1) She’s back with Roy and it’s “not his place to go now”

    2) Going would only cause trouble with Karen

    3) He’s probably not a huge fan of Pam right now and they don’t appear to even be talking.

    Going to her Art Show would seem unrealistic at the moment. But Michael going and making such a big deal about it was so sweet and totally made up for no Jim. Now the picture is hanging in the office, on the wall facing Jim, it looked like. So he can’t escape the art show after all.

  21. I don’t think Jim even knew about Pam’s art show. Things are clearly tense between them right now and they didn’t even speak to each other during this episode. Pam probably thought it would be too awkward to ask Jim to come (TWSS), especially since she’s back together with Roy now and she knows that Jim disapproves.

    There is no reason to beleive that Jim slighted Pam by not showing up to the art show, because we, as viewers, were given no indication that he was aware of it taking place.

  22. Whoa Karen…that was nasty! Jim had to have seen that flyer given his coffee addiction, and wasn’t allowed to go/the thought of going and seeing Roy sickened him. It’s a nice combo of both probably.

    Creed rules!

  23. You guys have all made great points. I always love to hear other views on the show.

    Does anyone else feel that they’ve been making Karen less attractive as the season goes on? In Stamford she was really cute but lately…not so much. She is gorgeous regardless but couldn’t help but notice the change.

    I found it interesting that Oscar told Gill that courage & honesty weren’t Pam’s strong points. Especially, because we’ve all been sitting at home for months on the edge of our seats waiting for her to fess up. I can’t remember who made the comment before but someone said they needed to be locked in a room cage match style…funny. But we all know it will happen sooner or later…and I agree that Michael will probably be responsible.

    We all noticed that Jim & Pam didn’t talk at all last night. That seemed to even show in Pam’s emotions too…..the one episode that Jim & Pam say nothing is probably the saddest we have ever seen her. Without is friendship & support she felt really empty. Other than after the holidays when she felt really alone.

  24. I think they’re making Karen less attractive both physically (as impossible as that is – Rashida is GORGEOUS) and personality-wise to make it easier to get rid of her at the end of the season. Kind of how they’re going to have to turn Roy back into a complete jerk.

    Just sayin’

  25. Lindsay (35), this wasn’t the first episode where Jim and Pam didn’t talk (not counting the Stamford episodes of course). It also happened in “The Convict”, but in that episode they managed to connect silently (by pranking Andy).

  26. Still not sure if Jim received an invite or saw the flyer, but that was intentionally left out by the writers. Pam needs to come to the realization on her own that she needs to be stronger (courage and honesty) and that Roy is not good for her. If Jim was invited that would probably create more problems (i.e., whether he should go, should he still support his friend, what kind of friendship do they still have, etc.). Best to keep that ambiguous.

    Now if Jim was in fact invited or knew about the show I don’t blame him for not going. Pam’s one show of strength in this show was calling off her engagement and going back with Roy last week made her look weak and ridiculous. Plus, all of Pam and Roy’s schmoopy at the front desk in front of Jim obviously pissed him offer (see his talking head). I don’t blame him for not going. Pam has some stuff to work out, and the writers pretty much spelled it out and confirmed that it is Pam, not Jim, that needs to make a move.

    Karen is in a slow self-destruct mode now. I look forward to her departure in May.

  27. Wallflower… what do you mean “have to turn Roy back into a complete jerk?” Don’t tell me you actually thought he had changed in the first place?

  28. btw, nice post, Lindsay. Both Jim and Pam seem to be at their lowest and saddest when they do not speak or their friendship is in peril. The acting is great with both of them. I think the viewers can feel (and relate) to what they are going through.

  29. Ok enough with the Karen bashing. Let’s take a step back and think about why anyone would put a flyer up about an art show. This is an office environment not a school or public area. It was very unprofessional of Pam to even litter the office with flyers about non-work related material. She could have sent an email to people she wanted to join. How hard could that have been? I know it’s a paper company, but email works better and faster.

  30. I am starting to lean towards Jim just not knowing there was an art show. Pam never personally invited him, Jim never mentioned anything about it and the flyer was apparently up in the kitchen, where the bat was trapped for most of the day.

    Karen saw, but she’s sure not going to say anything.

    So I just think he didn’t know.

    But Michael hanging her art in the office should be interesting. I hope Jim comments on it next week and we find out for sure what went down regarding whether he knew or not.

  31. I hope post #42 isn’t serious. I think it’s okay that she put a flyer up of her art show.
    I’m also starting to think that Jim had no idea about the art show.

  32. Mr. Obvious:

    It’s also very unprofessional to have a boss who throws a party to celebrate someone’s “Mexicanity”…It’s not like this is a Fortune 500 company. Things are obviously a little more relaxed at Dunder Mifflin.

  33. “Ok enough with the Karen bashing.”

    Why exactly should posters stop from bashing her actions in the deleted scene? Her attempt to take down a co-worker and supposed FRIEND’S art show flyer just so her boyfriend wouldn’t see it is a bash worthy offense if there ever was one. The fact that she didn’t go through with it means nothing to me, because it was her full intention to do so, and one that she would have successfully completed had Oscar not come into the kitchen at the right time.

    If Pam can be bashed for being insecure and the other laundry list of reasons she’s been raked over the coals, why can’t Karen? Why is she above reproach?

    I’m not quite sure I understand that.

  34. Mr. Obvious, I don’t see how that was unprofessional of Pam. In other episodes of The Office, I have seen flyers on the refrigerator, cabinets and on bulletin boards regarding other events and restaurant menus, etc.

  35. Mr. Obvious… as for using e-mail, what was the theme of tonight’s episode? It was all about paper. And at Dunder-Mifflin, paper is not obsolete.

    And I agree with Crazy Gringa- they put flyers up all around the Office for fairs and town events and stuff. Why not her art show? They also put up flyers for the Christmas party(ies)….

  36. *ahem*

    I will continue to “bash” Karen for as long as I like, thank you very much. I have not liked her character from day one, and even less so the past few weeks. Sure, she may have started out “cool,” but she’s taken a left turn into Clingy Girlfriend Town, with brief stop overs at Jealousy Junction and Psycho Crossings.

  37. Dorky Dancer- totally agree. The only thing that stopped her from doing it was that she didn’t want to look bad. It only makes Karen look more shallow, because she cares more about appearances than doing the right thing.

    I have too much time on my hands when I’m out sick.

  38. I think Meredith says something like “Because Roy is hung like an elephant and he picked the rice up with his c****!”

  39. Hee, Psycho Crossings.

    I didn’t really dislike Karen until this deleted scene, but now it’s difficult not to. That was a really screwed up thing for her to try.

  40. Weak Arms #30,

    Regarding Jim not being given any indication of Pam’s art show: We also weren’t given any indication that Michael and Oscar(?) were aware of Pam’s Art show either, but they both still showed up.

    I guess we’ll just never know.

  41. Agreed about them making Karen less attractive, wallflower. Although they aren’t going to have to try very hard to turn Roy “back into” a jerk, because he’s always been one, he’s just been hiding it. Poorly. And I think him leaving her art show early with his brother kind of brings it back full circle.

  42. it’s a deleted scene for a reason. maybe they realized it’s not like her character to take down the sign. that was kind of like 5 little deleted scenes.

  43. A deleted scene, in the context of the “documentary” that is being filmed at the office, still happened.

  44. You know, I think the whole deleted scene with Karen and the flyer was to show her insecurity. Maybe she didn’t really mean to do it and the fact that Oscar came out (haha) of the bathroom kind of knocked her back into her senses. I know that Jim has been up convincing Karen for 5 nights straight but let’s not forget Jim has at one time admitted that he still has feelings for Pam TO Karen. I think that one “Yes” is enough to shake the consolation out of Karen for that one second of un-conscience. I don’t fault her for being worried, I too would want desperately to keep a guy like Jim.

    As for Jim not showing up, I think it makes sense that he wasn’t there or it could’ve only triggered ANOTHER week of late night calls with Karen. And it also makes sense that he’s keeping his distance, afterall Roy and Jim weren’t on very good terms (at least in Jim’s head). I guess he feels that old intimidation.

  45. NJ Branch #38,

    I think the ball might be in Jim’s court right now. Don’t get me wrong, I want Pam to make the move on Jim this season. But I think Pam might have already exhausted herself (twice). Because this season, she’s the only one making all the moves in the relationship of JAM.

    Aside from the prank on Andy, it’s Pam who’s the one always approaching Jim and trying to start a conversation with him this entire season. From texting Dwali, coffee invitation at the Merger, a Dwight Christmas Present, the “go easy on Karen” talk, the “you need more sleep” talk, even upto the wedding it was Pam that approached Jim. Yet it’s Jim the one just sitting still and not doing anything really. He really had no reason to act shocked when Pam (at her weakest the 2nd time – 1st time when she cried with Dwight) finally gave in to Roy, at least Roy’s trying to do something to get Pam back.

    I thought when Pam cried during “Back From Vacation” that, that was it for her. But she proved me wrong and still kept trying to approach and initiate some interactions with Jim still. Hopefully she has one more in her left. But Jim needs to get up on his butt too. Yet, Jim just acts content being with Karen. And it seems like being with Karen has made Jim loose his balls.

  46. How do we know what is in character for Karen to do?

    We don’t know Karen except for the small snippets that the documentary shows us, and we’ve certainly never seen her within the context of a relationship before to know what is or is not in her character to do.

    This is a woman that jumped up in the middle of a quiet office so she can hug the boyfriend she kept up 5 nights in a row literally TALKING so she could feel at peace with their relationship. Why is it out of character that she would feel compelled to tear down an art show flyer in order to further hold onto said boyfriend?

  47. Help with the translation of what Meredith says:

    “Because Roy used the condom only to take the rice out of her asshole.”

  48. “(Karen)may have started out “cool,” but she’s taken a left turn into Clingy Girlfriend Town, with brief stop overs at Jealousy Junction and Psycho Crossings.”

    FUNNIEST thing I’ve read all day. Thanks for the laugh!!!!!!!!!!

  49. Wow, I REALLY don’t think that #64 is an accurate translation. I think it might have been closer to #53.

  50. it’s a show of a fake documentary crew taping what is going on at a fake paper company. they’re all actors and the office is a set. a deleted scene is deleted for a reason.

  51. They don’t film the deleted scenes “just for fun.” They are legitimate scenes that had to be cut for the time constraints. That’s why the Producer’s Cuts have them placed into the plot of each episode where they were intended to go before they were cut.

  52. After reading all of our posts….I realize that the whole Karen/flier scene was probably cut to prevent mass hysteria!

    But alas it makes it so much easier to say goodbye to Karen. I did/do sympathize for her situation but can’t deny that I am a JAM supporter….

    I think the fact that her boss and friend (although she has never really considered him that until probably now) Michael Scott showed her more kindness and support then her on-again Roy…..has really hit hard for her.

  53. In relation to deleted scenes in general:
    I enjoy them. Sometimes I enjoy them so much that I start to think they were in the actual aired episode. For example from season 2: Angela – “I used to get a runner’s high. Now I lift.” That was deleted but it was so funny it stuck with me. Too bad the episodes aren’t always super-sized or an hour long.

  54. WOW! – I can’t believe that Karen was about to take down the poster. She’s getting really desperate which is unlike her confident persona

  55. Just a thought about the deleted scenes…..

    The news that Andy went to anger management was not in the show….but in the deleted scene. Just because it wasn’t in the show doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    I agree that the deleted scenes are just what happen to get cut for time constraints.

  56. Wow, I knew Karen had been clingy with Jim. But I never thought she would pull this. That is low. Other than this, I liked Karen, but now, I am glad she is leaving.

  57. even in the extended producer’s cut there have to be deleted scenes left over. i believe this scene was left out (at least that karen bit) because it didnt quite make sense.

  58. blao, my whole point is that if you look at the show mimetically–that is, you assume it’s a documentary film being made at a real paper company with real people–then the “deleted” scenes should still be considered canonical. The documentary crew is there to capture whatever happens, not direct the action.

    Thus, the scene with Karen ripping the flyer down “did” happen, within that context. And I think it makes perfect sense, given her recent behavior. She’s become very jealous and it has affected her relationship with Jim, even if neither will admit it. Karen is basically holding Jim hostage emotionally at this point. How else do you explain his absence from the art show? As others have so eloquently pointed out already, Jim probably didn’t even raise the issue out of fear of another series of “talks.”

    That is not the sign of a healthy relationship, and neither is the distrust and jealousy that Karen is exhibiting.

  59. karen has always been nice to pam — even after she found out they’d kissed during the scenes in ben frankliln. she’s not manipulative and back-stabbing, but straightforward and determined. and boring and plain, too, for all you haters.

  60. Blao – She absolutely IS manipulative (from what we’ve seen of her). And in my opinion, she has been since we “met” her.

  61. Cousin Mose (back to #39):

    I meant Roy when he stops *trying* to be Mr. Nice Guy. I should have clarified.

  62. Do you think Karen had pure intentions when she asked Pam if she still had feelings for Jim?

    It’s pathetic that Karen didn’t break up with Jim after that.

    She should have made full disclosure to Pam that Jim still is into her. That’s one reason I think she’s manipulative.

  63. Comment #82,

    How was Karen nice to Pam after she had found out about Pam and Jim kissing??? After that little scene with her confronting Pam about it, Karen pretty much disappeared. She never had any interactions with Pam since that episode.

    And yes, I agree with Comment #81.

  64. Its clear that Karen is being set up for a fall by the writers. First she must be made a little less likable. The deleted scene is no “mistake”. Karen is whacko and the JAM reunion is coming at the end of the season.

    The question is, is Jim good enough for Pam? I can’t believe he hasen’t had ten minutes in the last six months to have coffee with Pam and explore their past and present feelings for each other and where things stand with their current relationships.

    Pam has made all the overtures to Jim since May and gotten nothing in return. To me, Jim is homing in on “jerk” status. Pam should hook up with Toby. She’ll be better off in the long run.

  65. Oh, here we go…

    WHY, people… WHY all the talk about TOBY??? Come on…let’s be realistic here.

  66. I think its agreed that most of the male office staff has the hots for Pam….but that doesn’t mean she should date all of them…..pass on Toby

  67. Karen is going to have a slow burn here. I love it…trying to take Pam’s flyer down. This is going to be fun to watch.

    Meredith…too funny. Wish she’d said it to Angela.

  68. Comment #89,
    “Karen took away Jim’s balls”

    No way. Jim is the one who is using Karen as a buffer between himself and Pam. I don’t buy that Karen is this manipulative psycho woman who is forcing Jim to stay in the relationship.

    Jim has had so many easy outs that he hasn’t taken. I mean, she asked him if he still had feelings for Pam. Instead of trying to talk her out of leaving him for five nights, he could have just been a man and realized that he shouldn’t put Karen (or Pam) through this.

    Oh, and I am not a Karen hater or a Pam hater. Most of my frustration (not hate) at this point is directed at Jim.

  69. Regarding deleted scenes…I think there is a big difference between deleted scenes from movies and deleted scenes from t.v. shows (particularly this show). Have you ever watched deleted scenes from a movie on the dvd of that movie? I used to, but I don’t much anymore, because usually you can see exactly why they were deleted. I think with t.v. shows, since they obviously have a time constraint (unlike movies), they have to cut things to get each episode down to the 20 minutes or so. I don’t recall ever watching a deleted scene for The Office and thinking, ‘Yeah, I can see why they cut that.’ In fact, more often than not, they fill the story in more and provide answers to some questions (i.e. where Andy is and perhaps why Jim didn’t go to Pam’s art show).

  70. I think they talked about Pam’s art that way, in all honesty, just to move the plot along (writers). Maybe she will consider their comments and change her quiet ways a little bit. I have never been to Scranton, but are you implying that Oscar and Gill are “flamboyant”? I really don’t understand your point.

  71. I can’t believe you ARE so obsessed with what Meredith says, orpheus. It was just an Arrested Development moment. You don’t need to know exactly what she said–in fact, it’s funnier if you don’t.

  72. Scott (#97)

    No matter where you live there will be people who think that they have a superior sense of culture. I live in a town without a single art museum, and I know plenty of people who would be just as snobby about art.

    Gil’s snobbiness has nothing to do with being gay, and bringing that into your comment comes off as a little homophobic. Gay people don’t just belong in big metropolitan areas. There are openly gay couples in small towns. It’s perfectly realistic.

  73. Scot – where did you get “allegedly metropolitan?” Gay people live all over the US – small towns,the big apple, farms in Iowa.

    Snobs also live all over the country. The two traits are not mutually exclusive, nor do they reside only in metropolitan areas.

    That is all.

    A gay snob who lives in a small southern town like Scranton and goes to both the museum and the county tractor pull

  74. orpheus, I actually agree with your comment (#64). I rewatched a few times to read her lips and it looks like exactly what she said.


    And I thought it’s been agreed that the deleted scenes are definitely canon. They’re posted for a reason, and only taken out because of time constraints. If by some off chance they didn’t realize that something was ‘out of character’ in the script and managed to film it, they wouldn’t post it. It’s very unrealistic to think that a scene that is out of character would even be filmed.

  75. I agree, the deleted scenes are definitely canon.

    On this website, there was a link to an interview Greg Daniels did for Variety. Here’s an excerpt:

    Although Daniels said he doesn’t save anything for the producer’s cut as a reward to online viewers, scenes relegated to the Web are not mere detritus. They have come to involve plot points that, while dispensable for a given episode, are more critical for appreciating the series as a whole.

    “The Return” also featured a scene that deepened the budding (if unlikely) friendship between Pam (Jenna Fischer) and Angela (Angela Kinsey). Daniels regretfully excised the scene, reasoning that its absence would not derail that episode’s storyline, but it meant that dedicated viewers who only see the show via the airwaves will have missed a significant chapter in the two characters’ arc.

    Eventually, the producer’s cuts will be the versions sold on iTunes and time-capsuled for DVD posterity, meaning that the original version of the episode seen on broadcast won’t go down in history as the de facto official version.

    “Maybe, eventually, the online version will just be the true version, and the on-air version will be the promo for the online,” Daniels said. “I do know that the show feels better with two or three more minutes.”


    As far as I’m concerned, that’s straight from the horse’s mouth.

  76. For some reason I can’t see this clip at the provided link. Does anyone know if there is a clip on YouTube yet??? If not, does anyone know how to do that??


  77. Wahey – these deleted scenes are working from the UK! Weird that just one episode was nixed by NBC. Still – I’m not complaining!

  78. I believe canon is (confirmed on Wikipedia) [/Jim]

    “In the context of a fictional universe, the canon comprises those novels, stories, films, et cetera, that are considered to be genuine or officially sanctioned … and that are considered to have existence within the fictional universe.”

    So basically if something is canon we can assume that it really happened in the fictional world of The Office.

  79. plenty of art shows happen in scranton and the surrounding areas all year.
    i would know, i live near there.

  80. I don’t believe that the deleted scenes are canon. The quote that was provided (from Gred Daniels) is in reference to the producer’s cut version of episodes released by NBC and offered to viewers on iTunes. The extra scenes are actually placed within the episode, and presented to us as a unit. The deleted scenes are simply offered as scenes that were cut from the episode. Since no explanation is given, we cannot know why, but we cannot rule out that what was filmed isn’t what the director eventually wanted to be in the episode.

    Some of the deleted scenes from the Season 1 DVD actually conflict with what we see later on the show (see: Dwight’s family name). So, unless the scenes are put in the context of a director’s cut, we cannot be sure that the director intends for us to think that they happened.

    That is my opinion at least.

  81. “Business School” was so good for so many reasons…

    More Creed!He’s so funny without even trying to be. Dwight’s going to have to come up with some new word starting with “A” for his next co-conspiring with a fellow office worker. Maybe getting Michael to grant him an “Allowance” to be able to do something but then again, “Would an idiot do that?”

    I’m not so sure that Kellie was takling about Roy when she said to Pam “OMG, you’re so in love NOW” after just saying “I can’t believe you’re back together with Roy!” Remember how Kellie was provoking Pam in front of Jim about pervy Ben Franklin’s advances? I think she even winked at the camera then too. I’m pretty sure which team Kellie is on.

    Jim was out of character tonight, I mean aside from becoming a “creature of the night”. That was funny although I noticed that he didn’t give any “can you believe this” looks to the camera. Didn’t so much as look at Pam, much less speak to her at all. Which could be understandable after she got back together with Mr.(still)Wrong. I expected that he would at least have a grin for the camera as he walked away with his collar pulled-up but not even that. I want fun Jim back soon!

    Karen’s not a bad person. She’s just in a bad situation and doesn’t have any idea what she should about it. Much alike a couple others within close proximity too. I’m really routing for Pam to get herself together and get on track with Jim and her art career, which is possible to be successful at while still working for Dunder-Mifflin.

    That bat was three times the size of the cave bats around here. I wonder if that kind is actually indigenous to the Scranton area.

    Yeah for Michael! Ryan should be put in his place now. Even if he truly believes it’s a dying breed, part of his job is to represent his company and to go six months without making a sale while Dwight, Stanley and Jim do it so often? I like Ryan although this is just what he needs, even though Kellie is really going to drive him crazy. Michael was so cool to get to Pam’s artshow and really look at the work she had done and appreciate it for what it was. That moment would’ve encouraged any downtrodden artist after Gil’s candid comments. The paper comment when he hung it on the wall brought the episode to good close.

    Looking foward to next week, how about you?

  82. I agree 100% with Kalon (post 117) regarding the deleted scenes. Daniels is referring only to actual producers’ cuts episodes, subsequently shown online in their entireties. Note that Daniels says that the producers’ cuts will be shown on the DVDs as the official version of the episodes; now think back to the first two seasons on DVD, where deleted scenes are just deleted scenes.

    Unless it’s stated to the contrary elsewhere, I say deleted scenes are not canon.

  83. Nice find mk31 #107!

    Canon shmanon, it doesn’t matter if it’s even a brandon.

    Those deleted scenes happened in the context of the show, period.

    They’re all part of the original script. If this show had an hour timeslot or whatnot, they’d be kept.

    All those complaining are likely Team Karen fans (yup and I will NOT believe otherwise so don’t even bother) are just upset to see Karen in such a negative light. Who can blame ’em?

  84. P.S.

    to continue where I left off on my last comment below – there has already been like 50 deleted scenes on this season alone. But why is there now a debate after this one particular deleted scene involving one Karen in a very undignified act?

    I wonder why… cough-TeamKarenSupporters-cough!

  85. Regarding the deleted scenes –

    Although both sides have very convincing arguments, I believe deleted scenes are canon. The fact that the producers released the deleted scenes strongly suggests that they’ve sanctioned them. They were part of the script after (likely) dozens of edits. They were filmed, probably multiple times, and cut from the 8:30 PM viewing for various reasons. I’m sure there are deleted scenes that we’ll never see and we’d have a harder time arguing that those scenes are canon. But the deleted scenes on NBC’s website? The producers wanted us to see those, often because they expand on a major theme, but sometimes because they’re just plain funny.

    I completely see the other side and I can probably go either way, but I decided to pick the one that seems most likely.

  86. I don’t understand how anyone can like Karen. She’s barely in any of the episodes and basically serves to create a barrier between Jim and Pam. We know nothing about her except that she worked and lived in Stamford and moved to Scranton for Jim. They haven’t developed her character at all and are only making her appear as a psycho girlfriend so she can leave *gracefully* in May. This “team” stuff is really annoying. Are there seriously any doubts that Jim and Pam will EVENTUALLY get together or that they don’t love each other? Really now…

  87. why would that scene with karen almost taking down the flyer be left out? if they wanted it included it very very very easily could have. there were plenty of little tidbits that could have been left out and replaced with that. something that severe and mean spirited could have been included, and the producers chose not to. WHY? because it didn’t quite fit in and make sense, because (i believe) karen’s behavior in all the episodes up to that point would lead any person to believe she wouldn’t do that. it wasn’t only left out because of time constraints. there’s more to it than that.

  88. I don’t think you can say that the producers left out the Karen scene because it didn’t fit. Look at all of the other tidbits in the deleted scenes. Are you going to tell me that there is a specific reason for each of those being left out?

    I don’t think Karen’s actions are out of character at all. She’s not a bad person, but she is very insecure in her relationship with Jim right now (with good reason).

    I dont’ think she was proud of what she almost did. It was just a weak moment.

  89. Does anyone know where you can find these other than NBC’s website? All I can get to load on the site is the ad that plays before the video, and then it just doesn’t do anything.

  90. Do you think they just let Steve improv a whole bunch of stuff in his speech scene? It seems like he would have a lot to add and then much of it would have to be cut for time. I wonder if this was an improvised bit.

    As for Scott (#129) no hard feelings, man. Sorry if I misinterpreted things [/Jim]. I guess I just don’t think it’s at all strange for a metropolitan-minded person to live in a small town. And Scranton isn’t rural or small, so it’s even less of an issue.

  91. “Those deleted scenes happened in the context of the show, period.

    They’re all part of the original script. If this show had an hour timeslot or whatnot, they’d be kept.”

    On one of the DVD Season 2 commentaries they mentioned that if it didn’t happen ON the show then you can’t take it as having been part of the story. Not to say that some of them aren’t, but you will never know one way or the other.

  92. The selectivity regarding deleted scenes is a bit transparent!

    Deleted from the scheduled network broadcast version or not, the producers choose to broadcast it now on the internet. I daresay that not everything filmed sees the light of day.

    If production staff actually felt a scene was a horrible mistake, even after the script had been written & approved and the scene filmed, it likely would not be shown to us on TV, on the internet, or ever, under any circumstances, wouldn’t you think?

  93. So do those who believe that deleted scenes “never happened,” wonder where Andy is? After all, the revelation that he is in anger management training was a DUHN DUHN DUHNNNN!!!! — deleted scene.

  94. Cousin Mose – the revelation of where Andy is was in the Producer’s Cut of The Return, and the producer’s cuts are likely going to be the main versions on the DVD and for posterity.

  95. I’m with Rachel and Cousin Mose. I’m certain that there is a LOT more filmed than is ever shown. If the producers of the show didn’t want us to see it, why do they show it to us? They obviously have to pick and choose which deleted scenes they actually show us. Granted, they’re not in the broadcast version, but they only have like 22 minutes to play with, and Greg Daniels has said in an interview that the show feels better with two or three more minutes. And he has acknowledged the importance of the online fan base.

    I have chosen to believe that the deleted scenes can be discussed as part of the show, ie, that they can contribute to the plot, character development, etc. Especially when they answer questions for us, like the deleted scene this week involving Michael and his discussion of the sale of stickers. Was I the only one who wondered about his sticker analogy (the more stickers you sell, the more beanie babies and playstations you can buy) in the broadcast version? It seemed, well, out of nowhere in the broadcast version, as if something had been left out in the editing. Well, lo and behold, here is a deleted scene that puts the stickers line into context.

    Anyway, it’s early in the morning and I’m rambling! :-) This is one of those interesting issues that shouldn’t be a divisive one among fans, just something fun to debate! I think Greg Daniels needs to do another “chat” and clear up this issue!

  96. I agree with Rachel (about the selective regarding of deleted scenes as being transparent).

    It’s a little fishy when the majority of the debate regarding the “truth” of deleted scenes comes out right after a deleted scene that makes Karen look bad.

    Honestly, I like Karen. I personally am more of a Karen than a Pam. And I can believe that I would be verrrry tempted to tear down that flier too in her situation.

    It’s not a sign of Karen being malicious, she’s just insecure! I don’t think the scene paints her as Crazy!Karen at all. It’s very believable to me.

    (Plus, who wouldn’t want Jim all to themselves?)

  97. As a business major, I just have to say that I adore Michael’s speech to Ryan’s class. One of my professors is obsessed with The Office, and last week, we talked about how hilariously awful Michael’s lecture was. It’s like the most basic priniciples from Microeconomics, explained so badly.

  98. “It’s not a sign of Karen being malicious, she’s just insecure! I don’t think the scene paints her as Crazy!Karen at all. It’s very believable to me.”–Shan21

    I agree with this, even though I’m a Jam fan! I think Karen actually likes Pam, but also sees her as competition for Jim’s attention. I’m sure she’s very conflicted, as was Pam in “Back from Vacation”.

    The only way I might disagree with you Shan, is that Karen is traveling down a road from conflicted, to insecure, to desperate, to ???maybe malicious??? You can see how, in complete desperation, Karen might do something malicious, not for the sake of being mean, but just out of a desire for self-preservation. I don’t think she’s there yet, but it could be coming.

  99. All I’m saying is that when Jim’s rabbit goes missing and turns up in the office’s microwave, we’ll know who to accuse.

  100. “You can see how, in complete desperation, Karen might do something malicious, not for the sake of being mean, but just out of a desire for self-preservation” –m3k1

    I totally agree. I can see it coming to that, although I hope it doesn’t. I hope that Karen has the self-respect to just end the relationship before it gets to that point, but I thought she was going to do that after Jim admitted he still has feelings for Pam. So who knows. Maybe she’s not as strong and secure as I thought she was.

    As for cousin Mose– hiLARious. Hehehe…

  101. Yeah, still surprised too that she didn’t break up with him after “The Return.” Anxious, SO anxious, to see where this goes tomorrow.
    Is it Thursday yet?

  102. “So is jim going to move back to his More “Pam Friendly” seat now that Ryan has Vacated it?”– Ryan

    In the clips that show Michael attempting magic Jim is at his old desk, so I wouldn’t get your hopes up.

    Although how awesome would it be if after meeting Karen’s ex something happens to drive them (Jim/Karen) a little further apart and at the end of the episode he switches desks?

  103. Whatever self-respect Karen had went out the window after Jim’s coffee shop confession. I mean, after he basically tried to deny it, then came out with a story that didn’t really match with what Phyllis told her, Karen *decided* to believe him because she *wanted* to believe it. If she were honest with herself, she would admit that she knew Jim still had some serious feelings for Pam, and that she (Karen) was being led-on by Jim, and that she needed to get out. That’s not self-respect. And when you don’t have respect for yourself, it’s hard to have respect for others (especially others who you perceive to be the enemy).

    That’s why I see some very desperate/borderline nutso behavior coming from Karen very soon. The character is gone after this season, so something WILL happen. Jim’s meeting her ex this week, so if this is a pattern of behavior for Karen (which I think it probably is), I’m thinkin’ this ex will say something to indicate that to Jim. Either that, or just seeing the guy will get Karen going all on her own!

    And don’t forget, even though it was kind of a joke, Jim DID call Karen a “psychopath” in an early episode this season (while they were playing Call of Duty in Stamford). First impressions…

  104. Rachel (comment #121) says it all!

    “To continue where I left off on my last comment below – there has already been like 50 deleted scenes on this season alone.”

    “But why is there now a debate after this one particular deleted scene involving one Karen in a very undignified act?”

    “I wonder why… cough-TeamKarenSupporters-cough!”

    I agree.

  105. While “jim-toolery” might be one of THE FUNNIEST things I’ve heard in ages, I kind of liked this scene. Especially where Michael wanted the books summed up. But overall I can see why it was cut.

  106. So, that conversation between Jim and Michael happened, right? Or maybe it didn’t, since Karen was probably sitting at her desk, shredding Pam’s art show flyer.

    *Mose chucks a rock at the beehive and runs off, laughing.*

  107. Cousin Mose, you slay me.

    And I loved this scene. I don’t think we’ve had enough “jim-toolery” this season.

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